multiple, multiple times, that's when i have a problem with it where do you come down on it, donnie? setting aside the facts of this particular case, i mean, should we still have a death penalty in this country? >> yeah. this case is obviously so sad because some of the witnesses recanted so this case is tragic. having said that, i'm very torn on the death penalty but i always say to people, there is a difference between ideology and reality. if i turn to nancy and say, are you for the death penalty? and you say, no. i say, well what if somebody, god forbid, kidnapped and killed your child? are you for the death penalty? yes. it's like waterboarding. do i want to waterboard and torture people? no. what if waterboarding would have saved your brother in 9/11? yes. so i think it's a very personal thing. i am very torn on it but i think there is a difference between ideology and when it affects you. >> i have a very good friend in san francisco whose sister was abducted when she was pregnant, murdered, stuffed in somebody's trunk, then found and the guy had the death penalty. she observed his execution. she said it brought her no closure. >> it never would.